--- title: Times and Seasons description: Issues of 1842 to 1843. authors: - Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints editors: - Ebenezer Robinson - Don Carlos Smith - Smith, Joseph, Jr. - Taylor, John collections: - periodicals tags: - newspaper - times-and-seasons - nauvoo - nineteenth-century periodical: Times and Seasons volume: 4 number: 11 published: 1843-04-15 publisher: E. Robinson and D. C. Smith; later John Taylor publisher_place: Commerce and Nauvoo, Illinois language: en type: article reference: "“Mr. Miller's Lecture, on Friday Afternoon,” *Times and Seasons* 4, no. 11 (April 15, 1843): 168–172." printed_title: Mr. Miller's Lecture, on Friday Afternoon. source: url: https://archive.org/details/per_utah-and-the-mormons_times-and-seasons_1843-04-15_4_11 transcription: Text from the Centerplace.org transcription (https://www.centerplace.org/history/ts/v4n11.htm), with its page breaks; this Internet Archive scan is the reference copy (its OCR was used only as a witness for OCR repair) identifier: per_utah-and-the-mormons_times-and-seasons_1843-04-15_4_11 start_page: 168 end_page: 172 curator_note: A Mormon newspaper published by the church in Nauvoo; included for historical study. Inclusion does not imply endorsement. rights: status: public-domain basis: US publication 1843 (Nauvoo, Illinois); published before 1931, so public domain in the United States source: https://archive.org/details/per_utah-and-the-mormons_times-and-seasons_1843-04-15_4_11 publication_year: 1843 --- # Mr. Miller's Lecture, on Friday Afternoon "Mr. Miller's last lecture in this city was on Friday P. M. His text was Rev. xi. 3, 'And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and three score days, clothed in sackcloth." He took up his subject under FOUR heads: I. The OBJECT and CHARACTER of a witness. The OBJECT. It is to tell the truth on the subject on which he testifies. 'The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.' A witness must testify only to what he knows. HIS CHARACTER for truth and veracity must be good-unimpeachable. It may be a living oral witness personally present-or it may be a written document, which under some circumstances, as the last will and testament of a person, &c., is of equal or greater weight than a living oral witness. II. Whose witnesses are they, spoken of in the text? 'My two witnesses.' Christ is the speaker, and claims the witnesses for his. III. What are the witnesses? Some say the church. But the church is a multitude in her individual capacity-one, in her united character. She does not know the whole truth on each point relative to Christ. Nor do a succession of christian ministers, Beside, Christ declares, John v:34, ' I receive not testimony from man.' The Old and New Testament are two. They are claimed by Christ, as his witnesses, Matt. xxiv:14. 'This gospel of the kingdom must be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations.' The Old [New] Testament, John, v:37-39. 'The Father himself hath borne witness of me-ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape'-they are they that testify of me.' These two witnesses do testify the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth respecting Christ. They testify all that can be known of him until he comes again." Without making any remarks on the nature and character of a witness, or dissenting with Mr. Miller, as to whose witnesses those are, that are thus spoken of; we will proceed to his third head, where he makes the inquiry, "what are these witnesses? some say the church" &c. Now although these two witnesses will be Christ's witnesses, and will speak the truth when thy do appear, we are very far from believing that they are what Mr. Miller represents them to be, for reasons which will hereafter be mentioned;. but that there will be two men who will prophesy in Jerusalem three years and a half; and that the things spoken of in relation to their prophesying, power, death, life, translation, &c., will be literally fulfilled without such great research and profound mystery; and that when it takes place, it will be understood by all connected with it. The Reverend Mr. Irving, of London; who stood at the head of a society that now bears his name-who created such excitement in Britain a few years ago, entertained the same notion that Mr. Miller does for several years, concerning the Old and New Testament being the two witnesses, for some time however before his death, he abandoned those opinions, and believed and propagated [propagated] extensively throughout christendom, the opinions which Mr. Miller partially refers to, in regard to the church; but the difficulty which Mr. Miller combats was obviated by Mr. Irving, for he believed that the spirit and the church, were the two witnesses. That the society which he founded was the true church; that London was the especial place for these witnesses to prophecy in; but that clothed in power, they were to go forth to all nations for three years and a half, to prophesy, to make a speedy work; that at the end of this time the earthquake was to happen; Jesus was to come; the witnesses be caught up, and many other events take place. They had about sixty preachers going through the streets in London, proclaiming these and other things of a similar nature, but Christ did not come at the expiration of that period, and although it is many years since that event was spoken of, some of them have not yet finished their testimony, and the church and spirit have not been caught up unto God and to his throne. We do not mention this as any argument against Mr. Miller's theory, but are perfectly willing it should stand upon its own merits. Mr. Irvings' views being wrong, is no reason that Mr. Miller's is; but these were introduced to show that opinions had been formed which would meet those arguments of Mr. Miller's, pertaining to the church being one. Mr. Miller introduces several quotations to show that it is not man, but the book that will prophesy; John v:34; 'I receive not testimony from man.' Because Christ says to the unbelieving Jews, I receive not testimony from man! are we to say that God does not make use of man to testify of him; of his purposes, and designs, as these prophets will do! How did we get in possession of the Old and New Testament? The scriptures say that 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost?' The testimony did not come from man; it came from God, through man, the same as it will do when those prophets prophesy. But again, Matt. xxiv:14; 'This gospel of the kingdom must be preached as a witness unto all nations.' We might here say something in relation to what the gospel is, and what it is not, but have not room. We will state, however, that it is a living principle, and not a dead letter. Our Savior told his disciples to go and preach the gospel, he did not tell them to go and preach the Old and New Testament. Who was to preach the gospel? The apostles. What were they? Our Savior says, ' YE are my witnesses, as also is the Holy Ghost, which bears witness of me.' Mr. M. says the witnesses are not oral. What sort of witnesses were the apostles? for they were witnesses. Mr. M. says that the Old and New Testament testify all that can be known of him until he comes again. We think that when God restores to Israel 'their judges as at the first, and their councillors [councilors] as at the beginning,' that something more will be known of God, and of his purposes. If their judges and councillors [councilors] are like Moses,. and if these two prophets prophesy, we certainly shall know more of God; and God says to Israel, in speaking of the future, 'I will reveal unto them the abundance of peace and truth.' IV. "The history of these witnesses. 1. They prophesy. They foretell all that is known, or ever can be known of Christ. They foretold his first advent, his sufferings and death, together with he time of his death. They foretell his second advent, his glory, and the time of that glory. They prophesy the leading events in the world's history. They prophesy through the whole gospel dispensation; but they prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, or years of that time, clothed in sackcloth.' Sackcloth is the emblem of obscurity. Rev. vi:12. 'The sun became black as sackcloth of hair'-denoting partial obscuration, but not entire darkness. These witnesses were darkened by the usurpation of Popery. In 533, in his crusade against the Arian heresy, Justinian, the Greek emperor. confered [conferred] supreme power in the church on the Pope of Rome, and constituted him the first of all bishops-head of all the churches-the true and effective corrector of heretics, &c. In 538, Justinian conquered the Ostrogothic kingdom of Rome, an Arian kingdom, and subjected the whole church to the church of Rome and set up the papal hierarchy. The scriptures were soon suppressed; the Greek and Latin languages ceased to be spoken as living languages, and the people were unable to read them. They prophesied still, but their light did not shine because they were in a language they did not understand. The Catholic church have prohibited the reading of scriptures by the people without the permission of the priests." We need not to have this thus obscured, we should think that sackcloth meant sackcloth, and not 'partial obscuration.' Job says, 'I have sewed sackcloth upon my skin;' Mr. Miller would have it, 'I have sewed partial obscuration upon my skin;' and in Kings, 27th verse [1 Kings 21:27], 'and it came to pass, when Ahab heard these words, that he rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in sackcloth, and went softly;' it ought to read according to Mr. Miller's theory, 'he rent his clothes, and put partial obscuration upon his flesh, and fasted, and lay in partial obscuration, and went softly.' Numbers of other instances might be cited to show the folly of such interpretations. 3. "These have power to shut heaven that it rain not in the days of their prophesy.' Rain is the emblem of Grace, or the outpouring of the spirit. During the dark ages of papal rule, there but few conversions; until the reformation under Luther and his associates when the Bible began again to be translated into the languages of Europe and was read by the people. Then revivals began. The suppression of the scriptures restrained or hindered the work of God." Power to shut heaven in the days of their prophesy-we have here as strange a distortion as can possibly be conceived of. How was it that Elijah stopped the heavens? spiritually or litterally [literally]? We read that it did not rain, that the cattle died, and that the rivers were dried up, and that when he prayed again, the heavens gathered blackness, the rain descended, and the ground was saturated therewith. We supposed that Mr. Miller thinks although God has power to burn the earth instantaneously, that he has not power to give this power to these two prophets as he did to Elijah; or why make such strange contortions to suit his theory? He speaks of the suppression of the scriptures restraining, or hindering the work of God, whereas these witnesses are not to be suppressed until they are killed; but to have power to shut the heavens, that it rain not in the days of their prophesy: men suppress the scriptures, these are not to be suppressed by men. 4. "These have power over waters to turn them to blood; and to smite the earth with all plagues as oft as they will.' All the plagues which have ever come on the earth or ever will, whether on nations or individuals, are in accordance with the principle laid down tin the Bible.-They have the power to pronounce these judgements [judgments]." What if the plagues are in accordance with the scriptures; do the scriptures pronounce these judgements [judgments]? Certainly not. Noah pronounced the judgement [judgment] on the Antideluvians [Antediluvian's]; the angel and Lot, that of Sodom and Gomorrah [Gomorra]; our Savior, the destruction of Jerusalem, and Mr. Miller, (not the scriptures) the burning of the world in 1843 or 1844. Did the scriptures ever smite the earth with plagues; or turn the waters to blood? Folly! nonsense! They never did, nor they never will. 5. "If any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and burneth up their enemies. If any man hurt them he must in this manner be killed.' The word of God pronounces its own sentence on all who injure it, and just what they pronounce will be fulfilled. 'I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophesy of this book. If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in the book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophesy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.' Rev. xxii:18, 19." When did fire ever proceed from the scriptures and kill any body? Fire descended from heaven in Elijah's day and killed many men; but we no where read of the scriptures doing it, and we are only surprised at the ignorance of men for teaching such stuff, and the gullibility of men for receiving it. Relative to the above quotation, we think that if any persons are likely to receive the fire or the plagues, Mr. Miller, and his authors will stand a good chance, for we scarcely know an instance of men making so many additions to that book, as the ones here referred to. 6. "When they have finished their testimony, (or as Mr. Faber renders it, when they are about to finish their testimony,) the beast which ascendeth out of the bottomless pit, shall make war on them, and kill them." "A 'beast,' in the symbolical language of Revelation, signifies a government. "The beast from the bottomless pit," is a government that has no foundation to build upon, but rises up without religion and illegitimately. Such was the Revolutionary government of France, at the close of the last century. It was founded in Atheism and the rejection of religion in every form. That government made war on the Bible, and swore to exterminate it-declared it to be a lie, Jesus Christ an imposter [impostor], death an eternal sleep, and, finally, that there is no God.-They closed the churches of France, and executed the clergy. They abolished the Sabbath, and every other institution founded on the Bible. The worship of God in all forms and kinds was discarded and prohibited. It was thus, this government made war on the witnesses and killed them. They gathered Bibles in heaps, and burned them. They tied a copy of the Bible to the tail of an ass, and dragged it through the streets of Lyons, while the populace followed with shouts and acclamations. The abrogation of religion took place September 1793; and in 1797, in the month of March, (after just three and a half years) the law was passed revoking the decrees against religion, and granted toleration to all Christians. 7. "Thus, during the three days and a half, their dead bodies were not permitted to be put in their graves, although they lay dead in the streets of the great Roman city, which is spiritually, or by the Spirit, is called Sodom and Egypt, from its gross licentiousness, and oppression of the people, of God-the crying sins of Sodom; "where, also, our Lord was crucified," in the person of his members and disciples.-From thirty thousand to fifty thousand Heugunots [Huguenots] slain in France in one night, on St., Bartholomew's eve, 1572. 'They of the nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves." "Although condemned and denounced in France, yet in other nations the Bible still lived in the sight of the people. The boast of the infidels to exterminate the Bible, was brought to nought [naught]. 8. "After three days and a half, the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet and great fear fell upon them which saw them." "The resurrection of the witnesses and their exultation to heaven, is the revocation of the laws against religious worship and the Bible, 1797, three and a half years from the prohibition in 1793. Great fear fell on the infidel world when they saw the triumph of the Bible., and its spread over the earth. The great voice from heaven saying to them, "come up hither," is the universal demand of the moral world for the Bible. So that since 1798, it has been translated either in whole or in part, into more than 150 different languages, and spread in nearly all nations." Unfortunately for Mr. Miller's theory, the dead bodies of these prophets were to lay in the streets of Jerusalem; and not in the streets of Lyons, in France in the streets of that city which spiritually (when the Lord means us to spiritualize he tells us of it,) was called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. The place is here already designated, Where was our Lord crucified? The answer is in Jerusalem. We might again ask, where will these prophets prophecy, be killed, and raised? The answer is in Jerusalem, not in Lyons, nor in any other place, for it was where our Lord was crucified, that they were to prophecy. But to say that the scriptures were destroyed at that time is too far fetched even for a spiritualizer; it is preposterous. Were the bibles destroyed in Italy, England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Poland, Switzerland, Russia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, America, Prussia, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Turkey; if not how do we make it out that the bible was destroyed, that the witnesses even according to Mr. Miller' theory, were killed? Again, did those nations rejoice over this ungodly step of the French of Lyons, and not suffer their dead bodies to be put in their graves. We will here quote the scripture a little more full than Mr. Miller has done, for we presume that with all his ingenuity he could not make this part fit with even his wildest and most flighty calculations. And their bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. And they of the people and kindred and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and a half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in their graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and a half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev. xi:8, 9, 10, 11. We again ask from this description, was it in France or in Jerusalem that these prophet were killed? and again state if we can find out where our Lord was crucified, we shall know the place. Did the people, and kindreds, and tongues, and nations see their dead bodies laying in the streets of Lyons, and not suffer them to be buried?-or did the French burn the old and new testament and the other nations have nothing to do directly or indirectly in the affair? Did they that dwell on the earth rejoice and make merry, and send gifts one to another, when the bibles were burned, and christianity trampled under foot in France? or were the nations tormented with the old and new testaments.-And again, did the spirit of life from God enter into the bibles that were burned in Lyons, or did their ashes remain there? Did the bibles stand upon their feet . (Query, where were their feet?) Did they ascend up to heaven in a cloud? if they did we have not got the old and new testament, for we live on the earth. Again we ask did any of the above things take place in Lyons or in France? No! says every man of common sense. No! echoes the word of God and history. No! re-echoes all those nations above named. No! says France, these thing did not take place in me. 9. "The same hour there was a great earth-quake, and a tenth part of the city fell." Earthquake, when used symbolically, signifies a revolution of a kingdom. The hour signifies period, the same period. The city the Roman Empire. Thus Rev. 17:18. "That great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth," or the Roman Empire. "Tenth part of the city fell," ceased its allegiance to the Roman power, and threw off the yoke of popery, and finally took away the papal dominion in Rome itself. 10. "Were slain of men," or as in margin, names of men seven thousand." To slay the names of men, is to abolish their titles and dignities. This was done in the French Revolution, when all names, titles and dignities of the clergy and nobility were abolished, and only the simple title of citizen was allowed to any man. The number seven, signifying the perfect nulling of all titles. A tenth part of the city fell. Of what city? Mr. Miller has now taken us from France, and planted us in Rome; before he had it that Lyons, in France, was the place where the prophets (the old and new testaments) were killed, buried, and resurrected. Now we are told that Rome is the city; (for mark it was the city that the two witnesses prophesied in, that a tenth part of it fell,) and not content with Rome, he drags in the whole of the roman Empire. Thus according to this, in the Roman Empire the prophets prophesied, were killed, and resurrected. Before we had it that it was infidelity that destroyed those things; now it must be laid at the doors of Catholicism. We have now waded through this great sermon of the great Mr. Miller, and turn away from it with disgust, for such a bundle of balderdash, folly and nonsense, we never before witnessed. Some of Mr. Miller's followers had said that the Mormons were the beast spoken of by John; if, indeed, they are, they have not got so many eyes, ears, horns and hoofs, as he has manifested; and if we are to judge of beings by their intelligence, we must think, from the above, that his intellectual powers range far below that of the human species. Besides his standing in society compares so well with the description given by John in Rev. "and all the world wondered after the beast." Mr. Miller has published the following: Why is it if our arguments and premises are as vulnerable and fragile as they would seem to affect, that they do not, by the bible, and fair arguments, meet and refute us? If it had not been for that, and their interference with us, perhaps we might have left them to their folly; for we are not afraid that these notions could in the least obtain among the Latter Day Saints. We have read with deep interest the account of the journeying and labors of Elder P. P. Pratt, and perhaps we have felt more interested on account of his being the first elder that ever sounded to us the words of eternal truth. We claim as our father in the gospel, and when we contemplate his many labors, his perseverence [perseverance] in the cause of truth; the bold unwavering course that he has taken, and the great work that he has accomplished, we feel proud of our parentage. Great indeed are the labors that he has performed, and now that he has returned, (after his many labors and perils) to the land of Zion, and to the bosom of his friends, we bid him God speed, we hope that he may be enabled to enjoy himself in peace among the saints, and that the blessings of Israel's God may rest upon him and his family. Immersion.-The Mormons had another baptismal ceremony at the Railway on Monday evening, when twenty-five new members were added to their fold. This sect is increasing very rapidly in this vicinity, under the zealous activity and enthusiastic preaching of their 'great gun,' Elder Adams.-Boston Daily Bee.