--- title: Improvement Era description: Monthly periodical of the Mormon church, 1897 onward. This library holds the issues of November 1897 to December 1930. authors: - Ivins, Anthony W. collections: - periodicals tags: - magazine - improvement-era periodical: Improvement Era volume: 26 number: 8 published: 1923-06 publisher: Young Men’s Mutual Improvement Associations publisher_place: Salt Lake City language: en type: magazine reference: 'Anthony W. Ivins, "Right Relationship Between the Church and the State", *Improvement Era* 26, no. 8 (June 1923): 679–686.' source: url: https://archive.org/details/improvementera2608unse transcription: Transcribed from the Internet Archive scan of each issue (the item for each issue is named in the issue's own source); unnumbered advertising leaves are omitted, printed page numbers are kept as page markers. identifier: improvementera2608unse start_page: 679 end_page: 686 rights: status: public-domain basis: US publication 1930 or earlier (published 1923-06) source: https://archive.org/details/improvementera2608unse publication_year: 1923 note: The Internet Archive item metadata carries a blanket "© Copyright by Intellectual Reserve, Inc." notice. The library owner judged it inapplicable because this issue was published in 1923, before 1931; a scan-level notice does not restore copyright. --- # Right Relationship Between the Church and the State IMPROVEMENT ERA Vol. XXVI June, 1923 No. 8 Right Relationship Between the Church and the State* By President Anthony IV. Ivins I sincerely desire, my brethren and sisters, that during the few moments which I may occupy this morning, the exercise of your faith in my behalf may enable me, through the blessings of the Lord upon whom I depend, to present properly the thought which I have in my mind at this time. I shall read first from the twelfth chapter of St. Mark, beginning at the thirteenth verse : MEANING OF CHRIST'S ANSWER TO THE PHARISEES "And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words. "And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man : for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? "Shall we give or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it. "And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's. "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." In looking for a text upon which to base the brief remarks which I expect to make, I thought of these words of the Redeemer of the world. They are simple words and to the superficial observer have little import except to impress upon one the fact that inasmuch as Israel at the time was tributary to Rome, it was necessary to recognize her sovereignty, and render submission to the system of taxation which she might impose. A more careful analysis of this scripture, associating it with other words spoken by the Redeemer, and the example of his life give it a deeper and far more important meaning. It may be *An address delivered at the Ninety-third Annual Conference of the Church, Sunday morning, April 8, 1923. Entered at the Post Office, Salt Lake City, Utah, as second class matter. Accep- tance for mailing at special rate of postage provided for in Section 1103, Act of October 3, 1917> authorized on July 2, iQJSt $2 Per annum. Address Room 406 Churh Office Building, Salt Lake City, Utah. 680 IMPROVEMENT ERA paraphrased and made to read : Render unto man that which belongs to man, and to God that which pertains to him. I wish to make it read as I desire to interpret its meaning: Render allegiance and sub- mission to the laws of men in civil government, and to the laws of God in that which pertains to the Kingdom of Heaven. NATURE OF CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS LAWS I suppose that at a very early period of the existence of man, it was discovered that for the proper protection and development of society it was necessary to enact laws, and delegate to individuals authority to administer and enforce them. Violation of these laws subjected the transgressor to penalties, more or less severe, as the offence justified. The outward expression of religion is the act of worship, by which we show our faith in a supreme being, to whom, we owe allegiance and service. Since the very beginning of history, in so far as it pertains to the present race of mankind, communication has existed between our Father in heaven, and his children who are here upon earth. At times direct communication may have been interrupted, but always to be re- established, that the purposes of the Almighty might not be frustrated. Certain fundamental laws have been given to man, through obe- dience to which he may be in harmony with the will of the Father, or out of harmony, as he obeys or rejects the requirements which are made. These requirements are not enforced by compulsory means, the penalty being the loss of that which might have been gained through obedience. In contradistinction of this the civil law demands obedience whether we will or will not, and if we refuse, physical force is applied to enforce submission. Briefly stated obedience to civil law is compulsory, obe- dience to the law given by the Lord is entirely optional. For violation of the former, man is answerable to the law which he, himself, has created; for violation of the latter, man is answerable to his Makei. PROPER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND THE STATE I know of no other question which has so disturbed the peaceful relationship which should exist between neighbors, communities and nations, as has the erroneous and perverted opinions which have pre- vailed regarding the proper relationship which should exist between the church and the state, and the application and effect of the law,s given by the Lord, and those enacted by man. It is plain to one who is familiar with the written, and spoken, word of the Lord, that there has not been, and is not now, justifiable cause for the misunderstanding, but notwithstanding this fact there has always been conflict. You who are familiar with the world's history know that there have been times when the state has waged unrelenting war upon the church, and you are also aware that the church has waged more relentless war, if that were possible, against those who differed from its views, or refused submission to its interpretation of the spiritual law. RIGHT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE 681 ILLUSTRATIONS OF CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE CHURCH AND THE STATE The conflict between the church and the state has not been more vicious, or devoid of mercy, than has that which has prevailed between people who were professors of religion, and professing to follow the same Master. In 1487 the head of one church, notwithstanding the fact that he had assumed the name Innocent, ordered the extermination of the Waldenses, and France, in obedience to the decree, drove from their homes, to find asylum in the Alps, or killed people who were among her best citizens, because they dared differ from others in their religious views. The massacre of St. Bartholomew will never be forgotten, and must sometimes be atoned for. The church sent the Duke of Alva to the Netherlands with full authority to exterminate all who were not orthodox in their faith and religious practice. No human pen will ever write, no tongue can tell, the story of suffering and injustice which, because of difference in religious faith and practice, has been inflicted upon the Hebrew people. Driven from the Promised Land, the home of their fathers, they have been denied the right of citizenship, and refused participation in the political and business activities of the world. They have been ruthlessly slain. Jewish mothers have looked on in anguish while the tongues have been torn from the mouths of their children, their hands severed, and bodies mutilated because they refused to renounce their faith, or deny the God of their fathers. Whatever their mistakes may have been, however much the re- sponsibility for their suffering may rest upon them, I know of no parallel of faith in, and devotion to, an ideal, comparable with that manifested by the Jewish people during the past 1900 years. That they have survived it, and retained their nationalism as they have is one of the miracles of the age. That the Lord will recognize their sacrifices, and, in his own time and way, restore them to their former place in his favor is certain, for he who is definite in power to accomplish has declared it. Religious fanaticism drove the Puritans from the old world to the new, where they hoped to be free from bigotry and persecution, and they were hardly established here when they burned innocent women who were accused of witchcraft, and drove from their communities men who differed from them in their interpretation of the scripture. It was because of difference of opinion regarding faith and worship that the Latter-day Saints were driven from the state of Missouri, and their possessions confiscated, to find temporary asylum in Illinois, from which state they later migrated to these mountain valleys, where they hoped to find peace and opportunity to worship the Lord in their own way. 682 IMPROVEMENT ERA CONFLICT THE RESULT OF IGNORANCE OF LAW I have frequently, in view of recent events, asked myself this ques- tion: Have we, modern people, who live in the most enlightened and progressive period of the world's history, with the experience of the past to guide us, and knowledge of the future, as it has been outlined by the prophets who have lived before, overcome this needless, unjusti- fiable, erroneous conception of the proper relationship which exists, or should exist, between the church and the state? Do we properly dif ferentiate between our obligation of obedience to civil law, in the admin- istration of temporal affairs, and our obligation to the church, which represents divine law, given for the purpose of preparing men for future glory and exaltation in the kingdom of heaven ? Where conflict exists between the two, it is clearly the result of either ignorance, or wilful misinterpretation of both civil and ecclesiastical law. THE LORD HAS SPOKEN PLAINLY ON SPIRITUAL AND TEMPORAL AFFAIRS With the opening of a gospel dispensation the Lord has always spoken plainly, defining the duties of those who accept his word, in regard to both spiritual and temporal affairs, and after defining our duties, and the obligation which is upon us, leaves us to accept and perform, and thus gain the future or present blessings which are predi- cated upon observance of the law, or reject, as we may choose. His word to us upon this important question, in the present dispensation, to which I wish to call particular attention is no exception. HIS WORD UPON THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION In the very early history of the Church the right relationship which should exist between the church and state was raised, and in order that there might be no misunderstanding in regard to this im- portant question the following was adopted and published, and has been the recognized attitude of the Latter-day Saints since that time. I read from section 134 of the Doctrine and Covenants: "We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man ; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society. "We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life. "We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same, and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice, should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people, if a republic, or the will of the sovereign. "We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in proscribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul. * * * RIGHT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE 683 "We believe that every man should be honored in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent, and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws all men owe respect and deference, as without them peace and harmony would be supplanted by anarchy and terror ; human laws being instituted for the express purpose of regulating our interests as individuals and nations, between man and man; and divine laws given of heaven, prescribing rules on spiritual concerns, for faith and worship, both to be answered by man to his Maker. * * * "We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil govern- ment, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied. "We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according to the rules and regulations of such societies ; providing that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing ; but we do not believe that any religious society has authority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world's goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship." CAN A BETTER BILL OF RIGHTS BE FOUND? I ask you, my brethren and sisters, I ask the people of the world, where can a better bill of rights, defining the proper relationship of the Church and the State, the civil and the ecclesiastical authority, be found, than that which I have read? Can error or justifiable objection be found in it? The Latter-day Saints believe that the coming of Columbus to this continent was part of the divine plan by which this land, which had been held in reserve, might become a place of refuge, and asylum for the oppressed and down-trodden of all nations, that freedom of worship, and exercise of conscience, in righteousness, might be enjoyed by all people. We believe that the Lord inspired the framers of our government to give us our legislative, executive and administrative system of government, by which our laws are enacted and enforced. This system, having been given of the Lord, it is not strange that the administration of our civil affairs corresponds so nearly with the or- ganization of the Church, and still differs so greatly in the one essential feature. CONTRAST BETWEEN CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS LAWS Our civil laws are enacted by Congress, that body being gov- erned, in framing the law, by the Constitution of our country; by our state legislatures under authority of congress, and our precincts and municipalities under authority granted by the state legislatures. The officers who administer these laws are chosen by the voice of the peo- ple. The law,s enacted by our precincts and municipalities, and the power of the lesser judges and officers who enforce them are limited in regard to both territorial jurisdiction, and power to inflict punishment. Legislative laws have jurisdiction over all of the people of the state, while congressional laws must be obeyed in all parts of the republic. 684 IMPROVEMENT ERA Decisions rendered by precinct, municipal or district judges are subject to review, on appeal, and may be carried to the .supreme court, whose decision is final. To each of these courts authority is given to enforce its decrees by compulsory means. We may protest, it may be contrary to our idea of right and justice, we may say that we will not submit, but it is all in vain, the civil law compels submission. It may impose heavy fines, and if we refuse to pay, take our property by force to satisfy its judgment. It may incarcerate us in prison, for life if the offense justifies, or even deprive us of life itself. In contrast to this, the laws which govern the Church are given us by the Lord our God. He is the author of them, he is our law- giver. He has revealed to us the, order of Church government and designated the officers who are to administer its affairs. The ward organizations, with their limited administrative powers, the stakes with their enlarged jurisdiction, and finally the presiding authorities, who have jurisdiction over all of the affairs of the Church, have all been given us by the Lord. WHERE CIVIL AND RELIGIOUS POWERS DIFFER ENTIRELY The men who administer the affairs of the Church are its priest- hood, the word signifying, collectively, those who are chosen and or- dained to perform ,sacred religious functions. The powers delegated to this body of priesthood, chosen to1 administer the affairs of the Church, while similar to our civil administration, differs entirely from it in the manner of administration, let me read : "Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen? "Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson — "That the rights of the Priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only up,on the principles of righteousness. "That they may be conferred upon us, is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in ahy degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the Priest- hood or authority of that man. * * * "Hence many are called, but few are chosen. "No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the Priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meek- ness, and by love unfeigned ; "By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile." I have read from the Doctrine and Covenants of the Church, section 121. Again I ask you, my brethren and sisters, can any just criticism be offered to this plain declaration regarding the prerogatives and rights of the priesthood? Can anything be wrong which is accom- RIGHT RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE 685 plished by persuasion, by long suffering, gentleness, by kindness and love unfeigned, Where are we to find a definition of the authority and functions of the priesthood superior to, or even the equal of that which I have just read. If it exists my attention has never been called to it. THE SYSTEM OF CHURCH COURTS It is true that a system of Church courts has been given, and judges provided whose duty it is to watch over the Church, to hear cases where differences may exist between Church members, and to take cognizance of cases where the rules governing the conduct of members, whose acts may be un-Christian, immoral, or opposed to jus- tice and righteousness, are concerned. This system begins with the teachers, who are expected to be familiar with the lives and conduct of the members of their wards, and who seek to induce, by persuasion and love, those who may have de- parted from the way of the Lord, to return to it. Where members refuse, or neglect to be governed by the council of the teachers, their case may be taken to the bishopric, and if they fail to reach a satis- factory adjustment may be carried to the high council, and from there appealed to the First Presidency. These Church courts, while corresponding closely to our civil courts, differ entirely from the latter in this respect. Whether it be the decision of a bishop's court, a high council or the First Presidency, no effort is made to enforce the decre contrary to the will of the ac- cused. Disinterested men1 hear the case, there are no lawyers to in- terpret, or misinterpret the law, the accused has the right to appear and speak in his own behalf, and to introduce evidence, after which the decision is rendered. If the accused refuses to submit to the findings of the court, the only penalty attached is the withdrawal of the hand of fellowship, or excommunication from the Church, after which he is permitted to go his way in peace, so far as his conscience may permit peace to dwell in his soul. THE CIVIL LAW COMPULSORY, THE CHURCH LAW VOLUNTARY The purpose of this review, brief and very imperfect as it is, is to call your attention to the fact that the civil law is given for the pro- tection and control of our temporal affairs, while the Priesthood is Conferred upon us for the control and development of the Church: that the former differs from the latter in that one is compulsory, the other entirely voluntary. To the civil law all men must submit, regard- less of race, creed or condition, while to the priesthood man may sub- mit or not, as he may choose. When arraigned before Pilate one of the charges brought against the Redeemer was that he was guilty of sedition, in that he had de- clared himself to be a king. Yes he answered, but my kingdom is not of this world. It was not a menace to the kingdom of Herod, or the 686 IMPROVEMENT ERA empire of Rome. His was the kingdom of heaven, and had nothing to do with the kingdoms of this world, except that he taught his fol- lowers to be obedient to them, but the people, failing to distinguish be- tween the temporal and spiritual could not comprehend. SUMMARY AND APPLICATION So, my brethren and sisters, I reach this conclusion: That it is the duty of each member of the Church to honor and obey the law of the land, and sustain the men who are chosen to administer it, in so far as they do so in righteousness and justice. That the Priesthood is conferred upon us for the development and control of the Church of Christ, and that it cannot be legitimately used for any other purpose. That whenever we use it for the promotion of personal interests, to gratify personal pride, or ambition, or apply it by compulsion or re- straint, we are upon dangerous ground, and not in harmony with the word of the Lord. My conception is that the exercise of the Priest- hood can only be legitimately used where the purpose is to provide equal opportunity for all, in, the sphere occupied by each member of the Church, and special privileges to none, except as men may have merited honor and distinction through, devotion to the work of the Lord. Do not understand me to infer that men holding the Priesthood are not entitled to participate in all of the activities of the state, and enjoy any and all of the emoluments to which citizenship entitles them, but this participation, and the honors which may come to them should be the reward of merit; and the influence of the Priesthood, as such, should not be used to accomplish their personal desires. Neither do I wish to infer that the Priesthood should not be exer- cised in the promotion and development of the temporal interests of the people. It is a poor system of religion, indeed, which treats only with the salvation of the souls of men, while it leaves their bodies to perish. What a simple thing it is, and yet how vitally important. If the people of the world could only be taught obedience to this doctrine, to willingly honor and obey the law of the land in the control of civil af- fairs, leaving all men to answer to the Lord in matters of faith and worship, each having decent respect for rights and opinions of his neighbor, thus rendering to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, and to God that which pertains to his Kingdom, peace would soon prevail throughout the earth, Christ's Kingdom would be established, and the will of the Lord would be done of earth, as it is done in heaven. May that day be hastened, is my humble prayer, through Jesus Christ. Amen.