--- title: Improvement Era description: Monthly periodical of the Mormon church, 1897 onward. This library holds the issues of November 1897 to December 1930. authors: - Parry, Edwin F. collections: - periodicals tags: - magazine - improvement-era periodical: Improvement Era volume: 12 number: 7 published: 1909-05 publisher: Young Men’s Mutual Improvement Associations publisher_place: Salt Lake City language: en type: magazine reference: 'Edwin F. Parry, "Herbert Melbourne—VII," *Improvement Era* 12, no. 7 (May 1909): 546–553.' source: url: https://archive.org/details/improvementera1207unse transcription: Transcribed from the Internet Archive scan of each issue (the item for each issue is named in the issue's own source); unnumbered advertising leaves are omitted, printed page numbers are kept as page markers. identifier: improvementera1207unse start_page: 546 end_page: 553 rights: status: public-domain basis: US publication 1930 or earlier (published 1909-05) source: https://archive.org/details/improvementera1207unse publication_year: 1909 note: The Internet Archive item metadata carries a blanket "© Copyright by Intellectual Reserve, Inc." notice. The library owner judged it inapplicable because this issue was published in 1909, before 1931; a scan-level notice does not restore copyright. --- # Herbert Melbourne—VII HERBERT MELBOURNE. BY EDWIN F. PARRY. VII. Ever since his arrival in the mission field, Herbert had kept up a regular correspondence with Alice Williams; and from the tone of her letters he had no difficulty in judging of her frame of mind. Being assured from time to time that her devotion was constant and unwavering, he was ever contented and happy. The encouraging news from home, both from Alice and his mother, gave him consolation and incentive to activity. When his missionary companion, Elder Davis, was released to return home, Herbert insisted that he should call upon his mother and Alice when he reached Salt Lake City. For this purpose he gave his companion letters of introduction, and informed the folks of his coming. In a jocular manner he wrote Alice requesting that she treat his friend kindly, but not to fall in love with him, even if he was more handsome than her "old lover." Elder Davis readily consented to make the calls. He assured Herbert it would be a pleasure to do so, and be no inconvenience, for his home was near the city. Now, Herbert Melbourne for some cause failed to place any limit upon thenumber of visits his companion should make at the home of Miss Alice. The truth was, he never thought it would be necessary to give the Elder any definite instructions about such a matter. The young man's own good judgment would decide that, of course. But Elder Davis' judgment, good or otherwise, led him very frequently to the Williams home. His first reception was so pleasant that he was persuaded to "call again" — and again. The next letter Herbert received from Alice told of the charming personality of his friend, Elder Davis — how entertaining ; HERBERT MELBOURNE. . 547 he was, and how handsome; how she enjoyed his company, and how generous he was in making calls, etc. Her whole letter was filled with gushing expressions about the returned missionary; at least, so it seemed to Herbert when he read it, and it had a dis- quieting effect upon his mind. Then he set to surmising. What could it mean, he wondered. Was there danger of Alice rejecting him for his friend and former companion? Davis was a fine fellow there was no denying that. They had been companion-missionaries for twelve months, and during that time Herbert had opportunity to observe his conduct most closely and learn his true character. There is no better way to get acquainted with a person than by living and laboring with him, as companion-missionaries do. Herbert knew of Elder Davis' real worth. He had found him to be a man of honor, and the two were the closest of friends. Could it be possible that such a friend would take advantage of his absence and seek to win away from him the affections of Alice? Elder Davis knew of their engagement, for Herbert had confided to him his love affairs. He knew of Herbert's great love for the young lady. Knowing all this, could he be so mean as to attempt to break the bond of love between the two? Such were some of the thoughts and questions that arose in Herbert's mind as he sat alone in his room. He told himself over and over that his fears were entirely groundless; still he was not quite satisfied. Such things might happen. Some people believe in theadage, "All is fair in love and war." He was not sure as to how his friend Davis regarded that proverb. By some misfortune, the next letter written by Alice was de- layed, and this circumstance added strength to his suspicions; for when it failed to reach him at the time he expected its arrival, Herbert feared it might be that she had ceased writing, and had transferred her affections to his friend, Elder Davis. But there was no way of immediately determining this question; all he could do was to patiently wait for further news from home. In his visits from door to door Herbert frequently had dis- cussions on religion with the people who would give him opportu- nity to explain his principles. Sometimes attempts were made to draw him into debate while holding out-door meetings; but he . — 548 IMPR VEMENT ERA avoided such controversies as far as possible. Sometimes he met ministers of other denominations with whom he endeavored to obtain a friendly conversation, but to his surprise, such men usually refused to talk with him after learning who he was, unless it was to fling at him all sorts of abuse, and to charge him and his people with every crime they could name. One day Herbert happened to call upon a minister who was rational enough to listen to his message for a few minutes, and then, in a kindly manner, undertook to labor with the missionary to "disabuse his mind of the fatal delusion he was laboring under." The discussion between the two was in part as follows: "My dear young friend," began the minister, "let me gently warn you against bearing false witness to the people, by telling them that angels have appeared in this age and revealed a new Bible to Joseph Smith. As a man of experience, and having made religion a life study, I trust you will be patient in listening to me while I point out to you some of the errors of 'Mormonism.' I have investigated your claims from the standpoint of a theologian — a scriptural student — and I believe I can convince you of your mistake." "If I am in error, I am willing to be set right," said the young missionary meekly. "All well and good, my dear friend, I can ask no more," con- tinued the divine. "Now, to begin with, let me show to you that the Holy Bible is all sufficient for our salvation. There is but this ons sacred Book of Truth. You remember the Savior gave the admonition to 'search the Scriptures;' and St. Paul wrote to Timo- thy saying that the Holy Scriptures, which he had known from his childhood, were able to make him 'wise unto salvation through " faith which is in Christ Jesus.' "But let me ask, what scriptures are referred to in the pas- sage you quote?" interrupted the young elder. "Christ and St. Paul certainly meant the Jewish scriptures the Bible," explained the minister. "Very well, then," said Elder Melbourne, "according to your interpretation of these passages, the Old Testament is all the scripture necessary to be accepted?" "I beg pardon, my young friend," explained the minister, " HERBERT MELBOURNE. 549 "my contention is that the Old and the New Testaments —the com- plete Bible as we have it, is the whole canon of sacred scripture. These writings contain the complete word of God, and are fully able to make us 'wise unto salvation.' "But the scriptural passages you call attention to have refer- ence to the Old Testament only, for you must remember that the New Testament scriptures were not written and compiled at the time Paul wrote to Timothy, and how could he have known them 'from a child,' when they were not in existence!" "Ah, young man, let me enlighten you a little further upon this matter. The New Testament is an essential counterpart of the Old: the predictions of the Old are fulfiled in the New— the one is a prophecy and promise of the coming of Messiah, the other the history of his ministry, the two making one complete record of God's will concerning mankind. Hence, we are justified in be- believing that the references I have given include the New as well as the Old Testament." "If then, as you say, the New Testament is a record of the fulfilment of the Old Testament prophecies, and is a necessary counterpart of it, must we not expect additional scriptures, testi- fying to the fulfilment of the New Testament prophecies, for you must understand that the New Testament contains prophecies of what is to take place in the latter days." "0 no, no! We must not expect more scriptures. There can be no other Bible — nothing added to the divine Book. Do you not know what the beloved Apostle John says at the very close of his book of Revelation? He gives a solemn warning that no man is to add to nor take from the words of that book; and yet your people, the 'Mormons' have had the presumption to disregard the warning and add other words to the Scriptures of divine truth!" "I fear that you misinterpret the words of St. John, and are misinformed as to our people adding to the divine Scriptures, my friend. St. John warns men not to add to nor take away from the words of the book of his prophecy — that is the book of Revelation which he had written. He did not intend it to apply to the Bible as a whole, for the latter was not compiled when St. John wrote his book. Yet I am as willing as you are to accept the meaning you place upon the passage. I and my people believe tint no man — has a right to add to or take from the words of the Bible; but we must not say that God has no right to add new revelations to his word. The additional scriptures accepted by the Latter-day Saints are revelations from God, not from man." "You must remember that the Bible says that there shall be no more prophets, and hence no more revelations. This one sacred volume is all sufficient for our salvation," urged his reverence. "Will you kindly refer me to the passage where this state- ment is made?" asked Herbert. "Certainly: First Corinthians, thirteenth chapter and eighth verse, which reads, 'Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease,' etc., showing that prophecies and miracles are to be had no more" "But please read a little further," insisted Herbert, "and you will find when such a condition shall exist —'when that which is perfect is come.' We haven't reached perfection yet, so there is still need for prophecies and tongues and all the gifts of the gospel." The minister, not desiring to continue the argument further, sought to change the subject slightly by this remark: "Your people claim that the Book of Mormon is a divine revelation, and yet it does not reveal anything that we have not in the Bible. The Bible contains all the truths that it has, and many more." "Your objection to the Book of Mormon is different from that of one objector whose statement I have read. Instead of saying that the Book of Mormon contained no new revelation, he objected to it on the ground that it contained too many revelations — that it answered all the theological questions that were before the relig- ious world at the time it came forth. Because it did this, he charged that Joseph Smith, knowing the questions that were agi- tating the minds of religous men of his days, undertook to answer them in his own way and claim that his writings were a translation of an ancient record. But there is at least one revelation in the Book of Mormon which you will not find in your Bible; and it is in the form of a prophecy which has been fulfiled many times over. Its truth has been verified in our presence here today —this very hour. Let me read to you this prediction from the Book of Mor- mon: 'Because my words shall hiss forth, many of the Gentiles HERBERT MELBOURNE. 551 shall say, A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there can- not be any more Bible!' In substance you have made this same declaration, and thereby helped to fulfil the prophecies of that book." The reverend gentleman admitted that he was not posted on the "Mormon Bible," and therefore did not wish to discuss its contents. He did not consider them worthy of any attention. The Bible, he maintained, was a sufficient guide to salvation. "The mistake you 'Mormons' make," he continued, "is in placing an erroneous and unwarranted construction upon the scriptures. You are too materialistic. As an illustration. Your doctrine teaches that God possesses a material body, and that mankind will be resurrected with material bodies. In all kindness I ask you to be patient in listening to me while I set you right on these and other important matters. God is a spirit, and the term spirit means a person without a material body. The Scripture states that heaven is a spiritual place, where flesh and blood can- not enter. Remember what the Bible says: 'Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.'" "Let me see if I understand you right," interposed Elder Melbourne. "Do you say God is without a body, and that in the resurrection mankind will be without bodies, because the Scrip- tures say 'flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of God'!" "Yes, that is my meaning." "Then you believe that Jesus Christ is not in heaven— that he cannot enter there." "Oh, no, no; he is the author of our salvation!" "But after the resurrection he appeared to his disciples and convinced them that he possessed a body of flesh and bones, for he told them to handle him and see, for says he, 'a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have.' I am willing to believe that 'flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,' but 'flesh and bones' can, for Jesus was resurrected with the same body of flesh and bones as he possessed in his earthly life—" "Kindly wait until I am through stating my objections, if you please. Your people teach that man existed in the spirit before he came upon the earth in the flesh. The Bible tells us that man was created by God himself, on this earth, his body before his soul. Let me read from Genesis 'God formed man of the dust of the : ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.' Note that both body and soul were created on this earth, and the body first; and that it was after the breath was breathed into the body that the man became a living soul." "But read the preceding verses of Genesis, and you will learn that God's creations, including man, existed before the earth was prepared for the abode of man. This is what is said: 'These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.' The creation of man described in the passage you quote refers to his earthly origin. His spirit existed before, as can be proved from the scriptures. The Lord told Jeremiah that he knew him and ordained him a prophet before he was born; and he asked Job where he was when the Lord laid the foundations of the earth. If Job did not exist at that time, why should the Lord ask him such a meaningless question? Paul wrote to the Ephesians that God had 'chosen us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world." "Well," said the minister, "we may differ in our interpreta- tion of the Scriptures on these matters. They are not essential to salvation, however, and I do not wish to contend with you about them. What I desire is to show you wherein you are misled as to the teachings of the scriptures, more especially concerning the principles considered essential to salvation. Your people teach that baptism is essential to salvation, and that it is for the remis- sion of sins. If baptism is for the remission of sins, then a man ought to be baptized every time he sins, and that would be every day. You can see how impracticable that would be!" and the minister laughed at the absurdity of such a doctrine. "Jesus died for the sins of the world, did he not?" asked Herbert. "Certainly, and that is the very reason why baptism is not necessary." "Then, if his death was for the sins of man, according to your " " HERBERT MELBOURNE. 553 logic, Christ should die every time man sins, and that would be every day, and a thousand times a day!" "Ah, there you go again! As I before stated, you are too matter-of-fact in your ideas of religion —to materialistic. * * Changing the subject, there is one thing I cannot understand about your teachings, and that is how you justify the practice of polygamy, when the Bible condemns it. Herbert fully expected he would bring up some such question, and wondered why he did not do so before. After explaining that his Church did not advocate polygamy now, he asked what part of the Bible condemned polygamy. The minister replied, "St. Paul, in writing to Timothy says that a bishop must be blameless, and the husband of only one wife." "I trust you will pardon me," replied Herbert, "the passage does not read as you have quoted it — "Perhaps not in your Bible," retorted the divine. "But it so reads in my Bible. "Then let us read it in your Bible," suggested Herbert; and taking up the minister's Bible from the table he read from First Timothy, third chapter and second verse: "A bishop, then, must be blameless, the husband of one wife." ' That's it, just as I stated it," said the reverend gentleman. "But you added the word 'only'— 'only one wife', you read it." "Well, what else can it mean but that he shall have only one wife?" may mean that he shall have at least one wife— that he "It shall be a married man." The divine was inclined to take the young missionary's re- partee good naturedly, so he smiled at this answer to his question, and then remarked, "It is said there are more ways than one to kill a pig, and there appear to be more ways than one of interpret- ing the scriptures. You 'Mormons' certainly have an original method of applying them." Salt Lake City, Utah. Pro BE CONTINUED.]