--- title: Improvement Era description: Monthly periodical of the Mormon church, 1897 onward. This library holds the issues of November 1897 to December 1930. authors: - Young Men’s Mutual Improvement Associations collections: - periodicals tags: - magazine - improvement-era periodical: Improvement Era volume: 2 number: 7 published: 1899-05 publisher: Young Men’s Mutual Improvement Associations publisher_place: Salt Lake City language: en type: magazine reference: 'Young Men’s Mutual Improvement Associations, "Conversation," *Improvement Era* 2, no. 7 (May 1899): 541–544.' source: url: https://archive.org/details/improvementera27unse transcription: Transcribed from the Internet Archive scan of each issue (the item for each issue is named in the issue's own source); unnumbered advertising leaves are omitted, printed page numbers are kept as page markers. identifier: improvementera27unse start_page: 541 end_page: 544 rights: status: public-domain basis: US publication 1930 or earlier (published 1899-05) source: https://archive.org/details/improvementera27unse publication_year: 1899 note: The Internet Archive item metadata carries a blanket "© Copyright by Intellectual Reserve, Inc." notice. The library owner judged it inapplicable because this issue was published in 1899, before 1931; a scan-level notice does not restore copyright. --- # Conversation — : : CONVERSATION. [It may be that even men of refined education and broad views do not and perhaps cannot converse in blank verse; or at all times even in classic English prose; but all who have had the pleasure — and unfortun- —of listening to conversation between men such as ately it is a rare one are referred to above, must have been struck with the elegance and refinement of that too much neglected art—the art of conversation. It is the rareness of thei pleasure of listening to such conversations as we have in mind which prompts us to present to our readers the following supposed conversation between two English gentlemen who in their day must have been masters of the art —Lord Chesterfield and Lord Chatham. Editors.] Chesterfield — It is true, my lord, we have not always been of the same opinion, or, to use a better, truer and more significant expression, of the same side in politics; yet I never heard a sen- tence from your lordship which I did not listen to with deep attention. I understand that you have written some pieces of admonition and advice to a young relative: they are mentioned as being truly excellent: I wish I could have profited by them when I was composing mine on a similar occasion. Chatham — My lord, you certainly would not have done it, even supposing they contained, which I am far from believing, any topics that could have escaped your penetrating view of manners and morals: for your lordship and I set out diversely from the very threshold. Let us then rather hope what we have written, with an equal good intention, may produce its due effect; which indeed, Iam afraid, may be almost as doubtful, if we consider how inneffectualwere the cares and exhortations, and even the daily example and high renown, of the most zealous and prudent men, : :: 542 IMPROVEMENT ERA. on the life and conduct of their children and disciples. Let us however hope the best rather than fear the worst, and believe that there never was a right thing done or a wise one spoken in vain, although the fruit of them may not spring up in the place designated or at the time expected. Chesterfield —Pray, if I am not taking too great a freedom, give the outline of your plan. Chatham: — Willingly, my lord; but since a greater man than either of us has laid down a more comprehensive one, containing all I could bring forward, would it not be preferable to consult it? I differ in nothing from Locke, unless it be that I would recommend the lighter as well as the graver part of the ancient classics, and the constant practice of imitating them in early youth.This is no change in the system, and no longer an addition than a woodbine to a sacred grove. — do not admire Mr. Locke. Chesterfield: I Chatham: —Nor he simply too grand for admiration: I: is I contemplate and revere him. Equally deep and clear, he is both philosophically and grammatically the most elegant of English writers. Chesterfield: — If expressed by any motion of limb or feature I my surprise at this remark, your lordship I hope will pardon me a slight and involuntary transgression of my own precept. I must entreat you, before we move a step further into our inquiry, to inform me whether I am really to consider him, in style, the most elegant of our prose writers. Chatham:—Your capable of forming an opinion on lordship is this point, certainly no less correct than mine. —Pray Chesterfield me. assist Chatham — Education and grammar are surely the two dryest of all subjects on which a conversation can turn: yet if the ground is not promiscuously sown, if what ought to be clear is not covered, if what ought to be covered is not bare, and, above all, if the plants are choice ones, we may spend a few moments on it not unpleasantly. It appears then to me, that elegance in prose composition is mainly this: a just admission of topics and words; neither too many nor too few of either; enough sweetness in the sound to induce us to enter and sit still; enough of illustration and reflec- : : CONVERSATION. 543 tion to change the posture of our minds when they would tire; and enough of sound matter in the complex to repay us for attendance. I could perhaps be more logical in my definition, and more concise, but am I at all erroneous? Chesterfield — see not that you I are. Chatham — My ear is well satisfied with Locke: I find nothing idle or redundant in him. Chesterfield: —But, in the opinion of some of your graver men, would not some of his principles lead too far? Chatham — The danger is that few will be led by them far enough: most who begin with him stop short, and, pretending to find pebbles in their shoes, throw themselves down upon the ground and complain of their guide. Chesterfield: — What then can be the reason why Plato, so much less intelligible, is so much more quoted and applauded? — Chatham: The difficulties we never try are no difficulties to us. Those who are upon the summit of a mountain know in some measure its altitude, by comparing it with all objects round; but those who stand in the bottom and never mounted it, can compare it with few only, and with those imperfectly. Until a short time ago I could have conversed more fluently about Plato than I can at present: I had read all the titles to his dialogues and several scraps of commentary; these I have now forgotten and am now indebted to long attacks of the gout for what I have acquired instead. Chesterfield: —A very severe schoolmaster! I hope he allows a long vacation. — Chatham: Severe he is indeed, and although he sets no example of regularity, he exacts few observances and teaches many things. Without him I should have had less patience, less learning, less reflection, less leisure; in short, less of everything but of sleep. —Locke, from a deflciency of fancy, not Chesterfield: is likely to attract so many listeners as Plato. Chatham — And yet occasionally languagehisboth meta- is phorical and rich in images. In fact, all our great philosophers have also this property in a wonderful degree. Not to speak of the devotional, in whose writings one might expect it, we find it abundantly in Bacon, not sparingly in Hobbes; the next to him in : 544 IMPROVEMENT ERA. range of inquiry and potency of intellect. And what would you think, my lord, if you discovered in the records of Newton a sentence in the spirit of Shakespeare? Chesterfield: — should look upon I it as a wonder, not to say a miracle; Newton, like Barrow, had no feeling of respect for poetry. — Chatham: His words are true: "I don't know what I may seem to the world; but as to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the seashore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of Truth lay all undiscovered before me." Chesterfield —Surely Nature, who had given him the volumes of her greater mysteries to unseal; who had bent over him and taken his hand, and taught him to decipher the characters of her sacred language; who had lifted up before him her glorious veil, higher than ever yet for mortal, that she might impress her features and her fondness on his heart, threw it back wholly at these words, and gazed upon him with as much admiration as ever he had gazed upon her.